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smash 4
Oct 3, 2014 15:02:42 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 3, 2014 15:02:42 GMT -5
loading times are annoying but
this game is basically brawl
sheik is really good, has some KO problems which is fine. super fast, amazing poke in ftilt, fast aerials, needle is great, good recovery (due to another jump in down b) diddy also really good, not quite as fast, side b is amazing, throw combos, also has a KO problem (slightly better off than sheik but still a problem), banana is decent, peanut is decent
bowser pretty dang good, but i doubt he is top tier; too big, and just a tad too slow
rosalina i think is broken. she is pretty slow movement wise though, sheik may be able to take advantage of that but the star is crazy
zss feels strong but hard to control esp w/o a cstick
robin is really cool but has too much recovery on most things (including grab, which idk why b/c i dont think robin gets followups), and doesn't have great pokes against small standing/crouching grounded characters
samus got nerfed . . . landing recovery added to fair, uair, zair, missiles, dair. some power boost to her moves (uair can kill now upwards, lol), but why nerf aerial attacks zzz
palutena seems pretty weak purely because her almost all her attacks are slow and have a lot of recovery. her fair is the only good move in terms of speed, but it isn't quite big enough to use immediately from a short hop (whiffs over a lot of chars) so it is one of her most useful attacks but isn't always useful. dash attack is her other fast startup move. solid, but punishable if blocked/whiffed etc. haven't gotten her custom moves, but her defaults are not good.
i think pacman is good but i haven't tried him yet
greninja is pretty weird. hard to feel comfortable playing him. i think he is solid, needs good control over his water shuriken though. slow startup on fair / nair and not amazing hitboxes. good hitbox on usmash. dash attack/dash speed are surprisingly slower than you'd think
shulk is not good. basically a faster ike, with the stat change gimmick.
metaknight does very very low damage, his range/priority have been nerfed considerably. pretty weak now, but not unplayable. i kind of want to keep workin on him a bit, but he is around mid tier or lower probably
still wanna try: bowser jr, duck hunt dog (need to unlock em) wario (kinda), yoshi, lil mac, pacman, lucario?
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smash 4
Oct 3, 2014 19:50:03 GMT -5
Post by Mr. Twister on Oct 3, 2014 19:50:03 GMT -5
lemme smash
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chirp
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 144
Likes: 189
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Post by chirp on Oct 4, 2014 0:58:26 GMT -5
i can't beat classic mode's last boss on 8.0 or higher weird that smash run can't be played online, i thought that was supposed to be 3ds version's big thing. not like it matters, i only play for fun GLORY
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 5:12:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 4, 2014 5:12:25 GMT -5
Gotta say, the Classic Master Hand + Crazy Hand battle was NOT what I was expecting. 10/10 would be shocked again.
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Post by delephantz on Oct 4, 2014 9:34:23 GMT -5
yea it's cool
not cool when u have to play it over n over for custom moves
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 13:24:50 GMT -5
Post by Eirokaj on Oct 4, 2014 13:24:50 GMT -5
I'll just wait for the Wii U version of Smash 4; I just can't see myself playing the game on a 3DS for some reason.
Anyway, for those whom managed to play Duck Hunt, Greninja and Little Mac, how are they?
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 13:38:17 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 4, 2014 13:38:17 GMT -5
duck hunt is good, annoying to fight against, but also awkward to play he has pretty strong and straightforward, but you have to follow neutral b (exploding can) and side b (disc that gets shot at ) with button presses, so managing all of that is the key. his normals aren't great, but they are good. semi floaty / average run. probably prefers platforms because his uair is good at harassing from underneath. pretty good smash moves. lots of range and hard to shield b/c they are multi hit.
greninja is decent, awkward to play. his aerial attacks are somewhat situational. his run animation looks fast but he doesn't run that fast. his jump is extremely high. (he is a frog) the combination of run speed and jump height make him feel pretty weird at first. the key to playing greninja is getting used to shooting a lot of water shurikens, often from a jump. mostly non charged for harassing , but charged is situationally very strong.
little mac is weird. super fast on ground, great dash attack, everything else seems really vanilla or bad. KO punch is a dumb mechanic and might make him viable (take enough damage, have a 1 hit ko move. good 1 hit ko move too, it's very fast). note that he actually is terrible in the air. his KO punch is about 30% as strong if done in the air. what probably will make him unplayable in the end is his recovery, probably worst in the game.
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 13:48:24 GMT -5
Post by Carzy on Oct 4, 2014 13:48:24 GMT -5
Lil Mac's ground game is ridiculous, but if you jump and try to use an aerial attack you deserve to die.
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 14:15:05 GMT -5
Post by Eirokaj on Oct 4, 2014 14:15:05 GMT -5
I see. I've been hearing a lot about Little Mac and his overall bad recoveries on SmashBoards as well. So basically what Little Mac got going for himself is high damage and having fast mobility while being grounded?
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 14:27:49 GMT -5
Post by Carzy on Oct 4, 2014 14:27:49 GMT -5
Yup. Lil Mac is weird since he wants to stay at center stage at all times. Even trying to edge guard is risky because of his terrible recovery.
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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smash 4
Oct 4, 2014 14:58:40 GMT -5
Post by Eirokaj on Oct 4, 2014 14:58:40 GMT -5
Despite the negatives, I'm still looking forward on playing as Little Mac. The characters that I'm actually planning on making both my mains are Duck Hunt (that Banjo-Kazooie resembence is too strong) and Pikachu. I may give also give Jigglypuff a chance this time around as well.
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 5, 2014 12:10:25 GMT -5
Post by cougar on Oct 5, 2014 12:10:25 GMT -5
Alright, so this is where I make some predictions (like I did to friends with Meta Knight before Brawl, although I'm pretty sure it was obvious to everyone except Sakurai he was gonna be stupid strong). Lengthy writeup warning. I'm not actually gonna bother to attempt to rank the veterans yet but I will say that Bowser, DK, and Sheik got some insane buffs. Others did too but I didn't really focus much on them yet, holy shit DK though. Can't believe nobody is talking about him. Old ROB also got gutted in favor of a less spammy playstyle. I'll be dropping him though, not an overall buff IMO. Side b is still useless, they trashed his fair, laser has a longer cooldown by a lot, super laser is also nerfed, and glide tossing got removed so he can't do the same gyro shenanigans.
For the new characters, I'll start with the trash. Also not touching Miis at all. Greninja, Palutena, Megaman are garbodor. Greninja is just all gimmicks and nothing actually good, Palutena is a harasser with no GTFO move (counter doesn't count, it's very blatant when she's going to counter and she can just be grabbed instead), and Megaman... Maybe I'm just not seeing it. I don't know. He seems slow in general and not really that useful. I almost feel like he is a Brawl character, isn't really playing at the same speed everyone else is.
Special mention for Lucina being a slightly worse Marth, no real reason to pick her unless you like Marth but are bad at spacing. She's naturally good because she's basically Marth, but nothing worth getting excited over. Might as well mention Dark Pit here too since I have no idea what the hell is different from normal Pit other than the wiki saying he does more damage but less launch. No idea.
Next tier is for the slightly less trash new characters that still aren't amazing but are very viable. So Robin, Little Mac, Villager, Duck Hunt, and Wii Fit Trainer. I feel like Robin has the potential to be really strong but I don't know if his range and high startups will limit him. Durability is not an issue at all, but most of his moves take a while to start up. Honestly reminds me the most of Dr. Strange in Marvel, for both the hard hitting unsafe moves and for the book he reads.
Little Mac? Yeesh. People are crying OP but honestly he's not that OP, just really strong. Get him in the air and watch him flop around. His ground game is basically the best in the game though, and he's extremely fun to use. His recovery is also literally the worst in the game besides Duck Hunt.
I have no play time with Villager so I don't know what to think. He seems alright though.
Duck Hunt is so ew. Really strong aerials (uair is insane if you haven't tried it) but horrible horrible smashes and generally bad specials. Maybe someone can make it work but I just don't see it at all. His recovery is laughable as there's no hitbox to interrupt people with, you just awkwardly float up.
Wii Fit Trainer is actually pretty good just because every move has completely ridiculous knockback. The moves all start up fast, too. No range but the kill potential is so sexy, and the anti-gimp with soccer ball makes for a surprisingly effective recovery. Still don't comprehend the down special. Could someone enlighten me?
So my top tier for the newcomers is Rosalina/Bowser Jr./Pac-Man/Shulk.
Rosalina is the one I'm not sure about. Most of her moves are slow, but her Luma mirrors every attack she does. I've seen uses for this I'm not sure I want to see again. Amazing potential but so hard to use, and without effectively using Luma, Rosalina herself isn't really good.
Bowser Jr. is just all stats and stupid hitboxes. He just has everything in one character - decent recovery, strong mobility, projectiles, priority disjointed hitboxes, amazing aerials, strong everything. You can't really play this character wrong. IMO he feels more like the glorious Brawl ROB than actual SSB4 ROB does.
Pac-Man is so hilarious and he's actually good. It's pretty sad. His moves do too much knockback and damage for their speed, simply put. It certainly doesn't hurt him that his recovery is likely one of the best overall in the entire game. The bell is also broken for edgeguarding. Just saying. So is side B though, and honestly his entire moveset.
Finally, my personal favorite, Shulk. Best damn character in the game. Doing more things isn't always better, but Shulk already has good attacks. Giving him the full versatility of 5 forms that give extremely strong bonuses might be a bit overkill. I'll put it this way. I ate a Bowser up smash at 160% and lived because of my Shield Monado Art. Speaking of Bowser, you also kill him easily from 120%ish once you turn on your Smash Art. And if you don't feel like fighting him or your Shield Art is on cooldown, just turn on Speed and run away lololol I don't know how this character made it in the game in this state but he's so beyond stupid, his other moves literally don't even matter but hell, a counter, finisher, and gapcloser don't hurt. Why not, right? Character has everything already anyway. Now bow before Shulk.,
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smash 4
Oct 5, 2014 14:49:02 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 5, 2014 14:49:02 GMT -5
i dont think shulk is that good, but his moves are big enough and he's got p good movement in speed form so he seems like he can fight.
his kill moves are hard to hit and his recovery w/o defensive forms is kind of blah. he also has a hard time with strong projectiles.
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 5, 2014 15:16:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 5, 2014 15:16:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not actually serious about Shulk. Just messin'. He's low tier of the new characters. Still very fun though! Also, Pac-Man's not quite as good as I thought upon testing today, and Palutena seems a little better.
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kaww
Lower-High Tier Otter
Posts: 346
Likes: 699
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smash 4
Oct 5, 2014 18:08:26 GMT -5
Post by kaww on Oct 5, 2014 18:08:26 GMT -5
Rosalina has plenty of counter picking potential at the very least, would give certain characters that rely on projectile based setup/zoning a hard time with the absorb. Villager getting his gyroid stolen is a funny thought.
A very interesting note about rosalina; Luma can attack no matter what state Rosalina is in. Grabbed, shield broken... etc.
She can also effectively grab downed opponents via having Luma dash attack pop the opponent up into Rosalina's grab. Has some potential.
A good Duck hunter dog vs ROB match that happened about a month ago for decent reference.
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 5, 2014 20:59:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 5, 2014 20:59:14 GMT -5
That ROB wasn't all that great though. Even in just the first game, kept trying to hit a SideB that never worked, and was just generally so slow. He also never used tilts, and rarely used aerials besides nair. Duck Hunt has some good matchups, but ROB should destroy him..
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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Post by Eirokaj on Oct 7, 2014 9:50:59 GMT -5
Super Smash Bros. for the Wii U will be released in North America on November 21st.
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smash 4
Oct 7, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -5
Post by Carzy on Oct 7, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -5
Time to start adding even more money to the Wii U fund jar
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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Post by Eirokaj on Oct 7, 2014 11:14:52 GMT -5
You're saying that like it's a bad thing.
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Post by mechwarriorny on Oct 8, 2014 4:56:41 GMT -5
Mac in a nutshell: Also, hi again.
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 8, 2014 5:27:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 8, 2014 5:27:17 GMT -5
Mech! Hell yeah, missed you buddy. Welcome back, even though I just got back myself.
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Jin
Lower-High Tier Otter
Posts: 318
Likes: 310
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smash 4
Oct 8, 2014 13:46:39 GMT -5
Post by Jin on Oct 8, 2014 13:46:39 GMT -5
Someone buy me a PeeU.
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Post by Carzy on Oct 8, 2014 15:28:50 GMT -5
That picture is so accurate. People who are claiming Lil Mac is OP are idiots.
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smash 4
Oct 8, 2014 19:36:51 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 8, 2014 19:36:51 GMT -5
toss canceling; characters who create a throwable item in their hands and then throw it again with the same command (link/ toon link/peach) can use the "throwing" move to cancel landing recovery
usages: peach float aerials canceled into down B while holding turnip to cancel landing recovery. or airdodge landing recovery.
link/tlink: air arrow landing recovery canceled into down B while holding bomb. or zair landing recovery, or airdodge landing recovery.
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 5:16:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 11, 2014 5:16:39 GMT -5
Well guess what? I'm an idiot. How about that! Called Greninja would be OP from announcement, abandoned him on release (and even called him trash), and would you look at that? An actual top tier character. At least I got Bowser Jr. right. Wrecking with those two.
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