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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 5:39:47 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 11, 2014 5:39:47 GMT -5
s sheik diddy zss dog a rosalina greninja fox b bowser pacman bowserjr lilmac puff yoshi c robin shulk villager marth lucina doc lucario wario sonic rob d most characters e ike palutena zelda samus
this is my current list i don't particularly understand eventhubs' since diddy has won two tourneys recently
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 5:43:01 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 11, 2014 5:43:01 GMT -5
also, my latest video
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 12:30:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 11, 2014 12:30:00 GMT -5
DK worst in game with D3 also low tier? That's about where I stopped reading the eventhubs tier.
You're still insistent on dog top tier, eh? Dunno. All I know is this. Bowser Jr. is very easily in the top 10 characters in the game, very likely in the top 5, and almost definitely the most often forgotten character that deserves recognition.
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 20:18:32 GMT -5
Post by Eirokaj on Oct 11, 2014 20:18:32 GMT -5
Great DuckHunt and Rosalina matches. I wonder why these videos have Jigglypuff self-shield break in the beginning for?
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 20:21:44 GMT -5
Post by momochuu on Oct 11, 2014 20:21:44 GMT -5
greninja is one of the best characters.
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 21:34:36 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 11, 2014 21:34:36 GMT -5
hes good. hard to play cuz his air game is subpar but he has good moves elsewhere
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chirp
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 144
Likes: 189
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 23:30:15 GMT -5
Post by chirp on Oct 11, 2014 23:30:15 GMT -5
jigglypuff is the player whose 3ds they're recording off of, and the shieldbreak makes a decent countdown/start
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 11, 2014 23:58:36 GMT -5
Post by momochuu on Oct 11, 2014 23:58:36 GMT -5
but all of greninja's air moves are good.... fair kills, dair is alright, neutral air is his best move, and up air kills and is a true combo follow up to a lot of moves
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 1:41:17 GMT -5
Post by cougar on Oct 12, 2014 1:41:17 GMT -5
I'm actually having serious trouble with his nair. I try to shff nair and it whiffs on anyone who's not like Bowser. Do you just not use it like that?
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 6:47:36 GMT -5
Post by momochuu on Oct 12, 2014 6:47:36 GMT -5
that's how you're supposed to use it. you're doing it too late. you can short hop fast fall NAir on everyone into jab and its safe. if you cross them up they can't shield grab you.
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 8:47:44 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 12, 2014 8:47:44 GMT -5
i doubt it is safe on shield since nothing is safe on shield
his best moves are water shuriken, usmash, and fsmash. uair is good, nair is alright. dash attack and ftilt are solid.
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 9:36:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by momochuu on Oct 12, 2014 9:36:04 GMT -5
its safe on shield. shut up friend.
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 12:10:17 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 12, 2014 12:10:17 GMT -5
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uwEvYc82aUOUJ22_NE_oK3LlmUglglrwN0_A_aiTKlM/edit#gid=012 frames of landing recovery on greninja's nair, and you aren't landing as soon as you're hitting, so it'll be more than 12frames to act out of shield vs greninja nair. other moves i have def. shield grabbed (sheik fair/nair, diddy bair) with similar or better landing recovery. and if range is an issue, you can easily shield drop + some other move, or jump out of shield to punish moves as well. i researched a bit, apparently shield dropping is 7f. and there are moves that are 3f, but the only ones i know off the top of my head are aerials. apparently there are 1frame jabs? jumping out of shield would work for some characters tho , some chars can up smash or up b out of shield to punish but those options are generally weaker in this game as far as i've seen
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 15:05:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by momochuu on Oct 12, 2014 15:05:33 GMT -5
how are you gonna shield grab him when he ends up behind you
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 19:46:48 GMT -5
Post by theultimator on Oct 12, 2014 19:46:48 GMT -5
My thoughts on the characters I've played so far:
D3 feels like a weird mixture of Brawl/Project M Dedede, but overall feels better now
Bowser feels great now, probably won't be high tier but I don't think he'll be bottom tier again
Captain Falcon feels gooood again. Insta-main for me
Robin is fun, but not sure about how good he'll be
Little Mac is my favorite newcomer, he almost plays like a Street Fighter character in this game or something
WFT seems really solid
Lucina being a Marth clone disappoints me
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 22:23:06 GMT -5
Post by Carzy on Oct 12, 2014 22:23:06 GMT -5
So what makes Shiek so great? I think she's good, but I wanna know what makes her S tier good.
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 22:37:42 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 12, 2014 22:37:42 GMT -5
she has really good dash speed but also really fast fall speed and small jumps. this makes her one of the most mobile characters in the cast both in the air and on the ground.
needle is really hard to deal with for many characters. since you can charge it to have multiple hits you can effectively use it to beat rolls/dodges, as well as damage people trying to land from the air. it is so fast, it can beat other projectiles pretty easily. when you use it, you can kind of force people to jump or shield it, which opens up opportunities. sheik can pester people in the air with fair, nair, bair, uair, as well as harass when they land with shield, or grabs.
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 23:11:44 GMT -5
Post by momochuu on Oct 12, 2014 23:11:44 GMT -5
tbh i don't even think she's that good. probably just early good. definitely not S tier lol.
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momochuu
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 138
Likes: 130
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 23:14:58 GMT -5
Post by momochuu on Oct 12, 2014 23:14:58 GMT -5
also can we please stop hyping up duck hunt dog. your tier list in general is mad random... lucario in C lmao.
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 23:46:18 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 12, 2014 23:46:18 GMT -5
i see the future
lucario has fast aerials and really low landing recovery on them, but has worse range on them than the sword chars and his dash speed isn't particularly amazing. his command grab is a nice tool to have but that one in particular doesn't have much of the same usefulness in beating shields in a different way than a normal grab would (e.g. bowser can grab from the air, diddy/yoshi grab from far away)
it's also a really early tier list, things can shift around esp. if people discover more stuff like the rosalina infinite (which i don't think is match practical at all, but pretty scary to think about)
duck hunt generally gives every character not in S or A a really tough time. could move him to A, idk.
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smash 4
Oct 12, 2014 23:53:30 GMT -5
Post by delephantz on Oct 12, 2014 23:53:30 GMT -5
on sheik; i've gone from thinking: "dang this character is the only one with mobility", to "dang i can't kill" to "dang i probably should never be in a bad situation ever so i can reliably get them to 150% to kill" + "dang this game sucks"
also, why do characters automatically wall cling. that is so annoying
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kaww
Lower-High Tier Otter
Posts: 346
Likes: 699
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Post by kaww on Oct 13, 2014 2:08:19 GMT -5
I don't even think duck hunt dog is in S tier when he has a fair amount of potential counter pick matchups. He's definitely at the very least good/solid with some great matchups with some exceptions. He's even potentially B tier if his bad matchups end up being prevelant. Only thing i've chimed into about Duck hunt dog is that his specials are definitely not shit. That aside, I wonder if Japan's perspective of Yoshi being S tier *or A tier for that matter* will stick for much longer. It's cool that he's getting some attention at the least. *edit* also people probably say Duck hunt dog is S tier because of those laggy online DHDs from across the ocean
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cougar
Low-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 60
Likes: 29
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smash 4
Oct 13, 2014 3:30:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by cougar on Oct 13, 2014 3:30:52 GMT -5
First off, Sheik got sped up from her Brawl version. Lots of things simply have less lag. Then we have her new DownB and, more importantly, her new SideB. More options is always good, and Sheik essentially went from 2 usable specials to 4. Not S tier but at the very least on par with ZSS, who is probably A tier.
I still don't get all the DHD love around here. That being said, I've faced exactly one in all my matches so I'm still reserving judgment beyond I don't think he's S tier or F tier. In the middle somewhere, and in a similar spot moveset-wise to Samus.
Yoshi will very likely stay prominent and A tier.
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Eirokaj
Upper-Mid Tier Otter
Posts: 184
Likes: 206
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smash 4
Oct 13, 2014 3:50:26 GMT -5
Post by Eirokaj on Oct 13, 2014 3:50:26 GMT -5
DuckHunt is a dog with a damn duck on his back, you cannot get it no better than that. Definitely one of the best newcomers for Smash "anime" 4.
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kaww
Lower-High Tier Otter
Posts: 346
Likes: 699
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smash 4
Oct 13, 2014 4:46:33 GMT -5
Post by kaww on Oct 13, 2014 4:46:33 GMT -5
DHD isn't exactly easy aside from the typical online DHD that end up looking as scrubby as a Mishima trying to mash on beams for victory in online Tekken. You won't really run into much decent ones/mains for a good reference, though they're more likely than a legitimate Rosa main that's putting in work. She's someone i'd try out later.
Bottom line he's a fun zoner to me with plenty of emphasis on multitasking while controlling space *being able to convert from mid range clay pidgeons is cool too*. Slightly reminds me of snake with using the can to cover you while shielding as an option. His edge guarding game is fun too, gonna work on gimping players with a downwards floating gunman + can covering one area + duck hunt dog in potential position for an aerial at the same time... once i can get some consistent matches that don't involve me having 8-10 frames of input lag.
Dug through smashboards for scraps of info/any new tech and someone described him as a aircraft carrier. More or less lol.
and yeah i definitely think Greninja is up there. I remember seeing a vid of his up air somehow spiking somewhere.
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